Este podcast é da responsabilidade da PLMJ. Bem-vindo ao podcast da PLMJ. Damos voz ao que interessa, ao que faz mover o país para lá da espuma dos dias. Os negócios, a comunidade, o empreendedorismo, a sustentabilidade, a arte. Partilhamos saber que é feito de experiência e que serve a todos. Move-nos a coragem para imaginar o amanhã e a vontade de criá-lo hoje. Juntos, a comunidade, os clientes, a PLMJ, a Fundação PLMJ, geramos impacto. Fique desse lado. Bem-vindos, regressamos à conversa sobre o Algarve no ano em que a PLMJ assinala 25 anos de presença na região. Temos vindo a falar com responsáveis de alguns dos projetos mais emblemáticos do Algarve, alguns dos quais a PLMJ acompanha há mais de duas décadas. Ao longo do último quarto de século, temos tido o privilégio de trabalhar com inúmeros clientes notáveis que muito contribuíram para a vitalidade e prosperidade do Algarve. Hoje temos o prazer de ter conosco Bruce Hocker, CEO da Open Media, grupo de mídia que publica revistas de luxo como a "Essential" e ajudou há 12 anos a mulher a fundar a Fine & Country, grupo de real estate com forte penetração no mercado estrangeiro no Algarve. Junta-se Gavin Scott, consultor da Belvin Franks, grupo que apoia os expatriados britânicos na gestão e otimização do seu património no sul da Europa, incluindo Portugal. Da PLMJ, junta-se Carmen Batista Rosa, responsável pelo escritório do Algarve. Juntos e através das suas histórias e experiências, fazemos uma viagem pelos últimos 25 anos da região. E claro, vamos falar inglês por causa dos nossos convidados. And now switching to English. Bruce, starting with you, could you share with us the journey of your media group in the Algarve, which by the way, is also turning 25 this year.

Thank you, Alexandra. Antes de mais, podia ser em português, mas vou falar em inglês, já que estamos aqui com o Gavin.

Por cortesia com o Gavin.

É um imenso prazer estar aqui. Great to be here. My journey in media actually started long before the 25 years ago. We launched Essential Algarve in the year 2000, but I started in publishing here in the 1980s at the age of 18, when I launched a publication here in the Algarve called the "Algarve Gazette", which was the first free distribution publication ever launched in Portugal. And this was hugely successful.

That's amazing. How do you turn 18 and have an idea like that? And by the way, why the Algarve?

My parents moved here in 1978, so I didn't have much choice.

How trendsetters of them.

It was my late father's idea, actually. He came up with an idea for my brother and I. Neither of us went to university. And he came up with an idea for us basically to have this free newspaper. Newspaper magazine kind of thing. He'd seen it in other parts of the world, in tourist areas. It didn't exist in the Algarve. None of us had any experience. My father included, my father was a builder. He had no experience in real estate. And it was originally sketched out on the kitchen table at home. And then we all decided that we were never going to be able to produce this without professional help. So we went to a very well-known company here in the Algarve, who were already strong in those days, Ateliê do Sol. Carmen knows Fred Phillips, and everybody knows he's a strong partner of ours over the years. And he designed the first few editions of that publication before we brought in our own designers and started putting it together ourselves. So fast forward, because it's a very long and probably boring story.

No, not boring at all.

1991, there was a recession here in Europe, in the West, that everybody tends to have forgotten these days because the big recession that hit us in 2008, 2009, was obviously far more severe. But that recession of 1991, at the time of the Gulf War, it actually killed our magazine and it killed most of the other existing media in the Algarve.

You published in English?

Yes, in English. Back then we were just in English. And at that time, we were already doing a bit of graphic design work and brochure work and for the next 10 years, really until the end of the 1990s, I was focusing on design and marketing work. We were doing a lot of real estate-focused design work, working on major projects such as Expo 98, the Venue Bridge.

Vasco da Gama.

Vasco da Gama Bridge. We did all the marketing literature for the visiting center there. Lots of big developments in Portugal at the time, such as Penha Longa, Praia D'El Rey, hotels opening in the Algarve, such as Sheraton Algarve at Pine Cliffs and Vila Vita. We did a lot of high-end graphic design work. But we always carried on doing publishing. We were doing custom publishing projects, magazines at the time for companies like Grupo Pestana, Quinta do Lago, unique magazine, the Quinta do Lago, we produced that for Quinta do Lago for 15 years. And we launched lots of custom magazines for companies all over Portugal. But really at the end of the 1990s, we were doing so much of this, and I kind of realized, no, this is what I like doing. And I wasn't really enjoying the design marketing work that we were doing. I had lots of graphic designers working with me, marketing people, and I really wanted to get back into publishing. And that was really-

The content part was missing.

Yeah. And also having the complete control over what we do.

Mm-hmm.

So, yeah, we realized that there was a void in the market in 2000 for a luxury lifestyle magazine. It didn't exist in The Algarve. And we launched the first edition of Essential on June 1st, 2000, and it was a runaway success. It just went from strength to strength really, right up until the next big recession.

We're kind of like Argentino.

Yeah.

It's always a mix of, oh, we're rich. Oh, we're not. So that's-

Yeah

... it's a portion.

But in the meantime, we launched Essential Lisbon. We launched Essential Madeira with a business partner. We had international editions starting at the time. We did an edition in Ireland called Essential Portugal Irish Edition, which ran for three years, was hugely successful. We launched it with a national advertising campaign in Ireland. We had a Russian language edition at one point when there was a lot of Russian investment going on in The Algarve. So, there was always these international ideas that were behind the concept. We had a lot of international content in the magazines as well. And, but yeah, then another recession hit. And our advertising revenue dropped by 80% from-

Keep calm. Trump is coming. There's another recession coming.

I think we're a bit better prepared for it this time.

Mm-hmm.

So, yeah, it was very difficult for us. We brought in a business partner who basically helped us ride out that very difficult time. And then we started basically exporting the Essential project to parts of the world that weren't in recession. So we launched with a partner in Macau, China, Essential Macau in 2011. So things were still very grim here in Portugal, but Macau was booming. That was hugely successful and helped in part to keep the company afloat at the time over here. On the back of that, we launched Essential Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia, with a business partner there.

That's incredible. Like you were 18 years old, you started this-

Well, by this time I was 36.

No, I know. But the way, it's learning on the job.

Yeah.

It's amazing.

Yeah. And yeah. So the international editions, basically the concept of Essential is it's a luxury magazine mostly for distribution in hotel rooms and in luxury restaurants. And we give it to people who we want to give it to, and we also sell it in the shops. So anybody who wants to go out and find a free copy, they can't find a free copy unless they're staying in a five-star hotel or if they're in a very nice restaurant.

No. And it's great. Last night I had Essential on my hands in my hotel room.

In your hotel room.

Yes. In my hotel room. No, and it's amazing being a former journalist grabbing a magazine whose paper is great and has a quality that we haven't seen for 15 years. Before media groups had to start cutting costs and doing it in a way that it's not as elegant and has that quality. It's kind of fresh to have something with such quality in our hands, so thank you.

Yeah. Oh, sorry. Yeah.

Let me bring Gavin to the conversation. Gavin, can you tell us a bit about your work in helping British expatriates manage their wealth in Southern Europe? And mostly I wanted, if you could in your answer, to cover a bit the differences in geographies where the group is present.

So Blevins Franks, we're present in seven countries in total. We're here in Portugal, Spain, France, Malta, Cyprus, and the UK. So traditionally places that British expatriates move to retire. So in Bruce's case, I would've first met him through his father, who he said came in 1978 and became a client of the firm not long after that, moving down here. We'd be speaking to people like that. And the advice that we give is about the differences between financial planning from a common law to a civil law jurisdiction and some of the changes and differences that come out of that. So it's very bespoke and very personal in the sense that... And the company grew from the idea that people could get tax advice in the UK, they could get tax advice, say, from one of the large accountancy firms in Lisbon at the time. But what they didn't have was a joined-up plan of how that actually applied to them and how they would move their family down from the UK to come and retire in Algarve or move to new business opportunities in Lisbon or Porto. And it's a journey I've been on myself. So when Bruce talks about coming here with his parents, my children have that same story because we brought them when they were six or 12 to come and enjoy the lifestyle in Portugal and The Algarve and the business opportunity that came with it. So I've been on the same journey that we now talk to our clients about coming cross-border, coming from the UK.

It's walk the talk, right?

Exactly. Yeah.

That's amazing. Carmen, when we started this conversation, we were talking about the projects that have been bringing prosperity to the Algarve, and we have two of them sitting right here. We are celebrating 25 years in the Algarve. What would you say are the features that make up for the prosperity of the projects? It's this vision of future? It's this vision of fulfilling a need? What do you think about that?

Well, basically, I do think that the Algarve has so much to give, right? Because it has everything. And of course, 25 years ago when we started, there was still not many means to do things. Like as an example, Gavin was saying, if you wanted a good tax lawyer, you had to go to Lisbon 25 years ago. Of course, there were some here in the Algarve, but the market was a bit scarce regarding that. And nowadays, you have PLMJ here, of course, and you have Stevens Franks. You do other type of assessments to individuals. We work more with corporations. But indeed, the region has so much to give, and 25 years ago, it didn't have the means to provide these services to clients and to foreigners that were starting to come. So I do believe that the foreigners that came here first, they made the needs for the services to appear. And actually, coincidentally or not, everything boomed in 2000 because it was Evans, it was Essential Algarve, it was PLMJ.

Because the ingredients were already here, right?

I'm sorry?

Because the ingredients were already here.

Everything was here.

Yes.

I wanted to reach that conclusion. It has everything that is necessary for real estate and tourism. And I'm talking about, of course, the weather that everybody talks about, but it's much more than the weather actually.

Mm.

It's the security and the sense of presence that people feel here in the Algarve that you do not have elsewhere in the country, I believe. Well, you might have, but here we have everything perfect to bloom, and I do think that's our difference.

I've got to agree with you, Carmen. The lifestyle was already here. What that then presented was the opportunity for economic development, and we've seen that grow. When I arrived, you couldn't drive along the Via do Infante past Alcantarilha. Now we're east to west across the coast. People were still talking about driving across the beach to get to certain locations further down the coast. The infrastructure is here now and business is really booming.

Yeah. We could maybe get better on infrastructure.

We'll be talking about that with André Gomes from Região de Turismo do Algarve-

Yes

... in our next podcast. Gavin, how does Portugal, and the Algarve in particular, compare with the other regions where Stevens Franks is present?

I'm quite often-

You like us more, I know, but

Of course. I'm quite often asked the question as a regional director. I'm asked, "Well, would I be better moving to Spain or France-

Why us?

... or Portugal?" Yeah. Why from a tax perspective? And I always start with the idea that we're letting the tax tail wag the dog. Come to the Algarve, come to Portugal for the lifestyle, and we'll develop your financial plan around that. If you want to go to Spain or France because you prefer those places, go there and we'll come up with a tax plan that works for those places. There are very few, I think, specific cases where people come purely for tax planning. It really is Portugal is the one that is driven by lifestyle. And we're very fortunate, I think, to have the fresh fish that we have, the Atlantic Ocean rather than the Mediterranean for these other places, bring that freshness, the wind, the sea, the sunshine. So I think that for me is always the starting point. There's no point in coming here as a retiree on the basis that you're going to come up with a great tax plan and life will be better because you pay less tax. We do pay less tax, and if we get the planning right, some simple mistakes that people make can put a lot more in their pocket. So just thinking about the difference between traditionally British people will have their savings and investments in offshore locations, the Channel Islands, Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man, and that fits because the institutions there prepare a tax certificate for the UK revenue. They cannot produce one for the Portuguese finances. So by moving their assets to a European jurisdiction, not only are we able to declare their taxes correctly that when they come due, but they're reduced. So instead of, say, paying 35%, they pay 28%. And well, that's a significant saving. That's a saving of 20% on their tax break.

Yeah.

It's like being able to buy everything in Portugal, saying "Eva."

Yeah. Good point.

You could say that amount of tax. Interesting.

Bruce, you were talking about the journey of Open Media and your magazines in the Algarve. I would like to have your perspective from how has Algarve evolved in the meantime? How did you incorporate those changes in your product throughout this cycle?

I'd like to start by adding to something that Gavin was just saying actually, which I think is really very relevant. So Gavin was talking about people moving here because of tax breaks, and this is really something that was seen as a catalyst for a boom in the market over recent years when we had the NHR tax regime, for example.

Mm-hmm.

When people would come here and have effectively a 10-year tax break. And then we had things like the golden visa with real estate now only available through other forms of investment. And everybody, all of our clients, all of our advertisers, the people that we deal with in business, when these regimes were either scrapped or changed, were panicking. And I always say to them, "Calm down, calma."

Calma.

Because we've always been attractive to foreigners as a place for people to come and live. So if we turn the clock back to, say, before the last recession, so 2005, 2006, 2007, the real estate market here was booming. There were legions of people from the UK, from Ireland, from around the world coming here, buying property, moving here to live. The expat community was growing. The only reason that those regimes were actually invented was to attract investment. When Portugal was in recession, we needed foreign investment.

Mm-hmm. We still do.

And obviously, we still do. But basically, there was this feeling that everybody was going to suffer financially when these regimes were scrapped. And it's not the case. The real estate market is still booming here. There are no major tax breaks unless you work with someone like Blevins Franks who can help you find- ... some effective ways to-

Still very effective.

Yeah. But it's not what it was. We don't have those obvious tax breaks that we had. And so what have we had to do over the years to stay relevant, really? We diversified as a media company. So we took over a long-established English language newspaper, "The Portugal Resident."

Mm-hmm.

At the time, it was called "The Algarve Resident." And it's a weekly newspaper. It's been running since 1989. It's really a very established part of the expat community here in the Algarve. And we improved the digital presence of it. We changed it from "Essential Algarve" to "Essential Portugal." So we imported a lot of national news as well as local community news in the Algarve. So this became really our number two flagship. "Essential Algarve" is our main flagship, but I would say there's a smaller flagship there which is "The Portugal Resident." Very strong online these days. We also took over the Portuguese language newspaper, "Barro Evento"-

Mm-hmm

... which was launched in 1975. And talking of anniversaries, "Barro Evento" is 50 this year.

Oh, wow.

So we are celebrating both 50 years of "Barro Evento" and 25 years-

5 from Essential

... oh, 25 from Essential, and we have a big party planned next week for that.

Ah.

So that's to celebrate that, which Carmen is coming to, and Gavin sadly isn't here in Portugal.

Unfortunately not, because Blevins Franks are celebrating their 50th year.

Their 50th.

Oh, nice.

Which was actually 1975.

2020.

Absolutely, yeah.

The year of 2000 was a big year for everyone.

Yeah. And 75 years ago was long before Bruce or I were born.

Yeah. But basically, we diversified in many ways as a small media group. We're currently 22 people in the business. We're not a big company. But to stay relevant, to stay-

I was actually going to ask you that again. Sorry for repeating myself.

Yeah.

Having been a journalist for almost two decades, seeing so many media titles going down, how do you keep it profitable? I mean, it-

Obviously, a tight control on costs is very, very important.

Okay.

But diversification is the key. And I would say the most important aspect of that, of diversification for us, has been events. I was actually looking back in 2018, 2019, before COVID, at how media groups such as "The Financial Times," "Monocle," others, many others around the world, were becoming as relevant in events as they are in media, in providing news. And so Gavin actually helped us to set up our first event, which was here in the Algarve. These were called the Living in the Algarve events, which we still run. And we run these among the Algarve, and they're basically events aimed at people who have recently moved here or who already live here or people who are here on vacation and are interested in moving here. So we get together small groups of local businesses who give presentations. There's a small exhibition. And then we exported that internationally, and it's now become our number one revenue stream in the business. So we hold events now for the last three years, Canada, all over the USA, South Africa. We're in Brazil in a couple of weeks' time. Then we'll be in Hong Kong at the end of this year. So we're doing events about investment in Portugal and also about immigration to Portugal.

Mm-hmm.

So some of the events are more investment-focused. Others are more-

Awareness-focused

... yeah. Awareness-focused about various aspects of living in Portugal.

Mm-hmm.

So yeah, we'll have a relocation logistics companies with us. We have health insurance companies with us, depending on which kind of event it is. Some events are more investment-focused with investment funds, law firms obviously, tax advisors. And the events have become very, very popular, and that's really the main driver of the business these days.

Yeah. Carmen, looking at for- Looking at PLMJ here in the Algarve. I know we've mentioned this in other podcasts, but assuming that people don't hear all the podcasts- ... I would like to hear you about the evolution, the journey of PLMJ here in Algarve.

Yes. Well, 25 years ago, we were still a baby. So, we were starting here in the region. It was not easy. There were some lawyers here, and of course, we had the firm's brand that was already a very strong brand, and it gave confidence to our clients. But indeed, we were focused more in litigation, but always real estate and tourism. That was our main focus as the region provides these type of activities. It's indeed what we focused on the most. Nowadays, we focus mainly on real estate, tourism projects, investors that come and want to develop big real estate projects in the region. We have some that we've assisted in the past, which make us very proud. Whenever there is the transfer of a resort or real estate assets to another company, we're involved as well. So sometimes we get in the same projects. It's like-

Several times.

Several times. Like for example, Vale do Lobo.

Yes.

How many due diligences we did to that resort.

That's a good point, and a key advantage for having long-term relationships with clients is that we end up knowing them in a way that a new firm or a new lawyer, and I'm not talking about, of course, the talent of another lawyer, just this track record of knowing the project. It's-

Oh, yes, for sure.

Yeah.

It's very important to know the history-

Yeah

... of, I believe, in all businesses, not only in law.

Yes, of course.

But the history of the client when it's a company, it's very important to be able to assist in the future. And of course, we have other type of assistance, mainly our clients who are corporates. Regarding private clients, well, I wanted to grab something that you said, Bruce, because nowadays we're seeing a lot of foreign investment coming from the United States. Much more than 25 years ago that I personally don't recall an American coming to Portugal to invest. You had the Brits, you had the Irish, but a lot of people coming from the northern of Europe, but not from Canada, not-- well, I'm Canadian, actually. This is a... But my parents were Portuguese, so it's different. You didn't find Canadians here or Americans investing, so it's a different type of market regarding our clients as well. It's a change from 25 years ago.

Yes. Gavin, let's talk about the future. Let's talk about trends. What do you envision as being trending topics on your business?

Yeah, I think the trends are already in place. So if we look back at the things that have already changed in the 25 years that I've been here, we lost, and the accountant that I was speaking to at the time, 25 years ago, said, "Oh, no. Banking secrecy is enshrined in Portuguese banking- ... Portuguese life and culture. There is no way that that will change." I said, "Well, you need to look at the European Savings Tax Directive that's coming along." And so we lost banking secrecy through that savings tax directive. And today when we talk about the Americans, the Canadians, and globally, we talk about CRS, the Common Reporting Standard, and the fact that today, the world has changed to the idea that everything you do, you have to imagine that finances or the relevant tax authority, Uncle Sam, if you've come from America, is in the room with you when you're doing that planning. And I think what we're going to see is far more legitimate planning in the future as we go. And really using the structures that are in place. So when we had NHR before, the Non-Habitual Residence tax regime, NHR2, as it's been referred to these days because the initials are easier than the real initials. All of these things will start to use these structures and things as we go forward to do what I would call legitimate planning about putting the right money in the right hands at the right time. And things have just become far more transparent as we move forward.

Okay. Bruce, future. Where do you see your media group going?

Where do I see the media group going? I think what Carmen was saying about how international the Algarve has become is incredibly relevant. You mentioned in the introduction that my wife runs a real estate operation here, and I think it's a typical example of basically they, over the last two years, have sold properties to people from 35 different countries.

Yeah.

And so how different the Algarve is now to what it was when it was just the Brits and the Irish and a few Germans and-

Better?

... and a few Dutch people. Better. I absolutely think so. We have the infrastructure, apart from all the potholes in the roads after the rain at the moment. But we have the infrastructure here. Where do I see us going as a media group? I see us diversifying the events that we are operating. Maybe not being so focused on real estate and inward migration. So we are becoming as much an events company as we are as a media company. I believe there is a future in print.

Mm-hmm.

I look, for example, at my sons. They're 35 and 33. They both read print media. My son subscribes to "The Economist" in print.

Yeah.

Rather than just taking the digital publication. I, for example, in fact, my oldest son bought me a Kindle around 20 years ago. I used it for so many years, and then I haven't picked it up for such a long time because I prefer reading a printed book, and I think people like print media.

It's a love object.

Yeah.

The print-

And it's, yeah

... it's a love object.

So something that we're doing with "Essential" at the moment, so you mentioned about the paper-

Yeah

... is we're making the magazine more tactile. So, if you notice, we have three different papers in the publication now, so people are going through different sections or in different papers. It's something that people want to take away and keep.

A sensorial experience.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. And keep on their coffee table at home, and I just think we need to stay relevant. And, yeah, certainly there is a future in media, but media companies need to remain relevant. I think that's the key.

That's key.

Yeah.

That's key. Mm-hmm.

Do you think there's a trust there, Bruce, in a sense, when you're publishing, that people are being bombarded with so much information, and thank you, Donald Trump, for the term fake news. We're all looking for that trusted source at the end of the day, and the fact that it's in print, it feels legitimate in a-

It's true

... in a way.

Yeah.

Never thought about it. Yeah.

And very often we don't-

Yeah

... we don't feel that from-

Yeah

... from digital in the same sense.

Very good point. Absolutely.

It's a very, very good point.

And you can read it at your own pace, because sometimes when we have our cell phones or other technology, things are just pop-ups, and it's so much information. And with a book or a magazine, you take your pace, you have your time, and it's not only your eyes or the touch of it, it's the smell of the books-

Yeah

... and the magazines.

Yeah.

It's-

I agree, and you are consuming something different. Like when you read "The Economist," you're not looking for information, you're looking to understand something.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that's why the print still has a place in the market, in the sense that, but it has to have great content.

It has to, and it has to be viable. For example, our Portuguese language newspaper, "Model Evento," the beginning of last year, we produced the last print edition, and now it's just online. It's growing online. The journalists are focusing entirely on digital. People weren't buying it in the shops anymore.

Yeah.

So, there was no point.

Of course.

And I think when a print media reaches that stage that it's no longer got the relevant print readership-

Yeah

... it needs to focus on digital, obviously.

Yeah.

So, we need to certainly, and we are investing in new websites, strengthening our digital presence, which is absolutely vital.

Yeah.

It's interesting with the proliferation of artificial intelligence and the searching that that does, that at Blevins Franks, we've had a number of clients or prospective clients have come in recently and asked a question, "I've got this from AI. Can I trust it? Can I rely on it?" "Will you please write me a bespoke report that either confirms or denies what I've now found online?"

It's a new line of-

So people are still looking for that. We're looking at that too

... it's a new line of business to confirm what AI or-

Yeah, exactly

... or the other way around.

Exactly.

New challenges.

New challenges.

The easy this time when you'll use AI to write that report.

Carmen, let's talk about future.

The future here at PLMJ. Well, I believe that we will have new real estate transactions. I hope we have new real estate transactions. Clients, I believe clients now are looking not only for a lawyer for conveyancing, but it's a bit more because the region has other aspects that need to be taken into account. We have environmental issues. For example, if you develop a new project, you should be aware of these water issues that the region suffers, and there's a whole bunch of laws that you should be aware of. Planning issues as well. And from a tax perspective, you need to have a detailed analysis. So it's not just getting here and buying a property or investing. You should be paying attention to whole other aspects of the transaction that in the past weren't attended. So hopefully, clients will invest more, and they're actually already investing here in the region.

It's like a preventive way of succeeding, right?

No, but that's the point, and that's what lawyers do for you. They prevent problems-

Yeah

... in the future, so you won't pay a lot of money in litigation- ... or solving things with the public entities, which will get you into a very worse result as if you had planned it from the beginning and been aware of it from the beginning. So hopefully, we'll have, and be involved in much more real estate transactions, but I agree with you, Bruce. Diversity is the key. We have to think ahead, and maybe it's a new type of business to confirm or not the conclusions of AI.

AI.

That's it.

Thank you so much for joining us at "PLMJ Podcast."

It's been a pleasure. Thank you.

Thank you.

Alexandra, Carmen, Bruce. Thank you.

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